Women in pharma

With February marking the International Day of Women and Girls
in Science, Iona Everson from PMGroup spoke to Emma Banks,
CEO of ramarketing, to find out more about her career

PME: What was your career path to your current position?
Emma Banks (EB): It’s been quite varied. I started off doing a pharmacology degree and then a PhD and postdoc, so I went down the medical research route. When I did my postdoc, I think I realised that I really didn’t enjoy working in the lab. It was an interesting experience, but I found it quite restrictive so I found myself at a pivotal point, thinking about what I was going to do next.

I decided to do something completely different and train to be an acupuncturist, as that is still connected with human health. To do that, I had to get a job, so I applied for a number of different things and in the end I found a job with a small CRO doing data entry, working in clinical development. That enabled me to do my acupuncture work four days a week, but when I had children, I found myself with three kids under four and the job in clinical trials became more important, in order to provide for my family. I kept doing acupuncture on the side, and then as I progressed in my career at that company, I worked my way up to associate department lead in data management.

At that point, as a family, we decided to move back up north as my husband is from the North East and he wanted to go back to Newcastle. As it happened, I was approached by an ex-colleague of mine to run a company in Newcastle – still working with data, but being more involved in the software side, using compliant software to collect data for clinical trials. I worked there for quite a long time and progressed to CEO level. The core thread for me at that point was definitely being involved in scientific medical research, but perhaps not in the lab. So it was still very much connected to something I loved, but it wasn’t lab based.

Then I was approached about running an agency. Initially I didn’t think it would be a good fit, as I’d just spent around 20 years working in clinical research and I knew the industry really well. But the timing was great and as the role was in pharma, the link was still there with the industry. So I decided to give it a try and looking back, it was probably the best thing I ever did. So that’s how I got here and even though I’m not from an agency background, I’ve learnt so much over the last five years.

PME: What would you say some of the obstacles were that you encountered as you progressed in your different roles?
EB: That’s a tricky question. When I was 17, I was adamant I wanted to be a medical doctor, but my teacher told me I wasn’t clever enough and unfortunately, being so young, I believed him. That completely changed my direction and that’s the reason I ended up on this career path. I think part of the reason I did a PhD was to prove to him that I could still be a doctor, just not that kind of doctor. So I would say that was an obstacle in some ways, but an age-related one.

‘The International Day of Women and Girls in Science is all about inspiration, shining a light on science as a career’

Since then, I feel that I’ve been really fortunate in that I’ve worked with really fantastic people, both men and women, who’ve been incredibly encouraging. I think now I’m probably more acutely aware of the challenges that younger women have than I was when I was younger. I was born in the 70s, and that was a very different decade to 2024. In those days it was much more accepted that women were treated inappropriately, with a sort of ‘everyday sexism’. I don’t think that I was that aware of it at the time and I just continued to do what I wanted to do. So I’ve been quite fortunate in that sense.

PME: Figures show that women account for just 25% of leadership roles in pharmaceutical companies. What is the importance of female leadership within the industry?
EB: There’s been so much research on gender balance in all levels of organisations, but particularly at the board level. I don’t know the statistics, but research has shown that you get a far better outcome, far better results, when you’ve got a good balance at all levels and particularly at the board level. I think the challenge for this industry is that it’s very technical. We still hear the rhetoric in schools.

There is still an unconscious bias and girls are still being pushed down paths that lead away from science. They’re not necessarily encouraged as much as they should be and I think that’s a barrier.

I also think that pharma is one of those areas where women have found it hard to become part of an industry that has historically been led by men. I’ll never forget going to a pharmaceutical event in London in 2012 that was connected to the Olympics. I feel that I was invited because I was a woman from the North East, so I ticked a lot of boxes. I remember walking in and seeing a sea of men in suits and wondering where all the women were. Even though there were a handful of women in the mix, it was probably the first time in my career where I’d seen such an unequal gathering and it really had a strong impact on me.

There was also a panel discussion at this event and the panel was all male. A very brave woman stood up and asked why there were no women on the panel. The response, something along the lines of ‘no women applied’, was shocking. And that’s the problem right there – women don’t see themselves as being part of the industry, they don’t see themselves in those positions of responsibility. So we all need to encourage and support women to see themselves in those positions. That change is happening and the more women we see in those roles and those positions of authority, the more women will join the ranks and believe they can have a long-term career.

PME: What is currently being done to inspire the next generation of women in pharma?
EB: There are some very impressive senior female leaders working for big companies who are making an impact, whether they have come through the academic route or via other routes. But I think it goes back to this: whether you’re a woman or of any other kind of diversity, you need to see yourself in these places because that’s what gives you the confidence that I feel I’ve gained.

I work with a relatively young workforce and I know I need to set an example for those people who are following me. It can be done and you can do it while being yourself. You don’t need to behave like a man to be successful – that isn’t the case anymore, but I’m not sure that’s necessarily permeating through every single type of company. So we have to lead by example.

PME: What are the main objectives of the International Day of Women and Girls in Science?
EB: It’s all about inspiration, shining a light on science as a career. Sometimes we think science is just being in the lab or doing research, but there are so many different things you can do. The career options are there, but people don’t always see them. We need to recognise that all women in science, even if they are not in very traditional scientific roles, make a contribution. It’s important to know that, whether you go into the research side or not, you can still have a fulfilling career in science.

PME: The day also celebrates the critical role women play in science and technology communities. What progress has been made in terms of representation over the past decade?
EB: It is clear, when we look at some of the scientific breakthroughs, that progress has been made – I read a book about the development of Crispr and that was very much spearheaded by women. But if we think about the world at large, every day we continue to hear about the oppression of women in what are considered to be progressive countries.

So, while a lot of progress has been made, I don’t think it’s enough, because we still continue to have these conversations. As I said earlier, we need to identify those women who are setting an example in the different facets of science and research, so that other women will feel that they can do that too.

PME: Where do you hope we’ll be in five years time with female leadership in the industry?
EB: The ideal scenario is that we’ll have a greater gender balance across all levels within all organisations, but I don’t think five years will be long enough.

In the world we live in, it still seems to be a situation of two steps forward, one step back for women. It’s going to take a long time, but even though that sounds discouraging, we can’t give up.

‘Research has shown that you get a far better outcome, far better results, when you’ve got a good balance at all levels, particularly at the board level’

PME: What kind of advice would you give to women as they are starting their careers in pharma?
EB: I think it’s such a hard balance when women start their career, thinking that they need to get their foot on the ladder, need to progress to the next opportunity.

But when I look back on my career, the best advice I would give is to find good people to work with. When I started at my first job in data entry, one of the founders of the company took me under his wing, he could see my potential and he was so encouraging. So try to find those people, at different levels of seniority, who will support you and encourage your development in a non-gender specific way.

PME: Being a woman at the head of an agency, how do you try to ensure equal representation during the recruitment process and encourage applications from women?
EB: I think there are two ways of looking at it. One is that marketing generally is quite female dominated. So, in some ways, that is not our challenge.

It’s probably more the other elements of diversity that we need to work on. But I think no one’s absolutely nailing their recruitment approach.

I remember going to an EDNI conference in Newcastle last year where there was a big debate about CVs being out of touch with today’s world and that, instead of looking at CVs, we should be taking a different approach to interviews, because people can have an unconscious biased when it comes to which universities applicants attended, which subjects they studied and where they’re from.

It’s funny, when you asked me that question I thought: “Do I need to have that conversation again internally about whether we should stop reviewing CVs and instead think of ways to assess people differently?” It’s an interesting question because I think there’s definitely room for improvement.

Of course, there are other ways where women are at a disadvantage in the workplace. The traditional scenario of working in an office five days a week, from 9am to 5pm, disproportionately impacts women because, at different points in their lives, they are usually the main caregivers for their families, whether that’s for their children or, when they get older, their parents, and this is the kind of discrimination that’s not really seen or recognised. That’s why today’s more flexible approach to working is so valuable and contributes immeasurably to women being able to achieve a better work/life balance.

Iona Everson is Group Managing Editor of PMGroup